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Returning a Rifle to the Seller Ffl Again

Written By Monday, May 9, 2022 Add Comment Edit
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  1. If someone sends a gun to an FFL to exist picked upwards past a buyer and the buyer does not accept it, what does the receiving FFL do with the gun if the shipper was not an FFL and did not/will not provide an FFL who will accept the return shipment?
  2. Well, one would assume the gun was already paid for if the first FFL shipped it.. if it was a "seven twenty-four hour period inspection period" sort of thing, then I suppose the 2d FFL would return it for a aircraft fee. If the buyer simply decided they didnt want it, then they should not accept ordered information technology. As I stated, I cannot imagine an FFL sending a gun before receiving the funds, so the indecisive individual would be SOL.

    If for whatever reason the heir-apparent is unable to pass the backround bank check, and so I suppose that would bring up a whole new consequence, just I imagine the two FFLs would communicate and come to a solution... once over again, it falls to the heir-apparent having already paid.

    The best solution would seem to be send the gun back and (in such a circumstance every bit a Denied BRC) for the buyer to be refunded when the sending FFL received there gun.

  3. Last post missed my point.

    Assume the gun was a long gun shipped by a non-FFL to an FFL for transfer to a non-FFL.

  4. My apologies, I misread, allow me try again.

    If for whatever reason the gun is to exist returned to the Starting time NON-FFL and they reject to provide an FFL for the return, the gun merely will non be returned. It will be logged into the FFL's books and cannot be logged out without 1 of a few things happening. At that place is a buyer, in that location is a transfer, the gun was destroyed, the gun was stolen and the law informed. those are the only means a gun tin exit an FFL legally. At that place are legal steps that must exist taken before an "abased" gun can be sold past the FFL.

  5. I had a chat with an FFL about this.

    1)Heir-apparent takes possession
    2)Heir-apparent pays to send it dorsum
    3)This FFL charges $20 per month per gun left with them if you don't pick information technology up. Once the fee matches the cost of the gun they claim the firearm and so sell it to a LGS.

  6. In that case we consign the gun for the heir-apparent. The selling FFL kept his side of the bargain - he was paid and shipped a firearm that the buyer was willing to accept. It's not the seller'due south error that the heir-apparent was a prohibited person.

    What we wouldn't practice is allow the heir-apparent come back with his wife, girlfriend, brother, male parent, etc. to do the paperwork since nosotros know how that's ultimately going to plough out.

  7. I accept has this happen very seldom. But yes, someone needs to provide either an FFL or someone who tin pass the groundwork cheque and legally fill out the form (i.east. no straw buyers). If it sits long enough in my safety I transport a registered letter to the last known owner and then sell it.

    Just yesterday I had someone lodge a gun from Bud'south and then not pass the groundwork check. We'll run across how this one pans out.

  8. Confused

    If I empathize the issue here. I buy a gun from a private political party. I pay for the gun and shipping to my FFL. The gun arrives I go to my FFL'southward place of business organization fill out the 4473 form. My FFL does the NICS check and I fail. What does my FFL exercise with the gun. He tin can't give the gun to the me since I failed the background bank check. He tin't ship information technology back since the seller is not an FFL. The original heir-apparent could arrange with the receiving FFL to ship the gun to a seller's FFL. If the original seller can pass the background check the FFL receiving the gun back tin can do a regular transfer. If the original seller can't laissez passer the NICS the gun belongs to the FFL in posession of the gun since neither buyer or seller tin legally possess the gun. Presented this hypothetical to friend ATF agent this is the best I could empathise from what he said. Recovery of the purchase price is now a civil matter for the courts to handle.

    Terminal edited: Sep 21, 2010
  9. My policy for such a "nonreturnable" firearm was suggested by a lawyer friend.
    I've only had to give notice to one customer who somewhen had his NICS denial overturned.
    Equally NICS appeals can have several months (this 1 took five months) I have not instituted a fourth dimension limit nor exercise I charge a monthly "storage fee".
  10. I'thou dislocated a bit on this one. Assume I buy a gun from a not-FFL from out of state, who ships to my local FFL. I become downward to the dealer and notice that the gun was misrepresented by the original seller, who included a copy of his other-state commuter's license as ID for my FFL. Are you proverb that if I refuse to have delivery because the gun is non as represented--that is, I am unwilling to fill out the 4473 to complete the transfer--my FFL cannot (i.e., is legally prevented to) return the gun directly to the original seller because he or she is not an FFL? I understand that I'thou on the hook if I can't laissez passer the background cheque, but if at that place is a trouble with the gun?

    I take never had this happen. I did have a private seller not include a re-create of his ID with a gun shipment (unintentional oversight), and my FFL told the seller that if he did not send a copy his ID for the FFL's records, he was going to render the gun to him, as he would non release it to me without clear ID on the seller. The seller promptly sent a copy of his commuter'southward license, and we closed the bargain -- quite satisfactorily, I might add.

    Terminal edited: Sep 21, 2010
  11. That is why my FFL will NOT accept a firearm from a NON FFL. Fifty-fifty though it is technically okay to practise then.
  12. Refusal to consummate 4473

    Your refusal to consummate the 4473 has the aforementioned effect as failing the NICS check. You are on the hook for the buy price. In that location is no legal remedy I am aware of in the case where the gun was misrepresented (Caveat Emptor). Is your reason for not filling out the 4473 based on your disatisfaction with the gun or another reason. Since you lot have already paid for the gun and the seller received his funds the only recourse I can see is civil for recoveryof your purchase price. Refusal to complete the 4473 is a foolish move unless yous know yous won't pass in which example you should never have ordered the gun in the showtime identify.

  13. No, the gun belongs to the buyer since he paid for it.
    He cannot possess it, however. He can consign it for sale. He can adjust for a sale through another FFL. Theoretically he could arrange a sale with another private but no FFL is going to do that because of straw purchase issues.
  14. Belongs to???

    You are right the heir-apparent owns the gun just can't take possession. The FFL in possesion of the gun can legally sell the gun since the records evidence the gun in the possesion of the FFL. Any activity for recovery of the buy price must be through the courts.

  15. Interesting. I hadn't thought of it that manner. Let's say, for the sake of discussion, I had paid l% to the seller, and he agreed to send the gun to my FFL for inspection, the remainder due on my satisfaction. Or what if I buy a gun on one of the auction sites, and the seller has listed a iii-day inspection menstruation. In other words, there is some prove that the sale is not even so "consummate." I have always read the inspection period as an opportunity to not have the gun. Am I mistaken?

    Again, this has never happened to me; I've never refused a gun I've purchased, new or otherwise. I'g simply trying to sympathize the process. And specifically, tin my FFL return a gun to a not-FFL seller, just similar Ruger, or a custom gunsmith, tin can render a gun straight to me?

  16. Return to Non-FFL

    The first scenario of the inspection period presumes the possible need to render the gun the seller and buyer understand that before they enter into the deal. The seller realizes or should realize the need for an FFL to have the return. If he cannot receive the gun from his FFL the same issue comes into play. In answer to your second enquiry your FFL cannot return the gun to a non-ffl. The provisions of the law allowing a gun smith to render to a non-ffl is a special situation covered by law.

    Last edited: Sep 21, 2010
  17. The but fashion an FFL can return a gun directly to an private is if the gun was originally tendered for repair.

    Apparently, assignment or transfer are not "repairs".

  18. It comes down to a few simple things.. no affair the exterior circumstances, ANY gun that is received by an FFL MUST be logged into their books. Once that is done, the gun cannot leave that FFL without either a 4473 being filled out and called in with a "proceed," the gun being shipped to some other FFL (to start this all over once again,) the gun being destroyed, or the gun beingness stolen and the regime informed. There is no other way for the gun to get out the receiving FFL....

    A couple of like situations happened recently in a friend'southward store but with a twist.

    Ane human being brought in a few guns to exist sold on consignment through my friend'due south shop.. after they sat on the shelf for a few weeks, the homo decided to take his guns home... Problem is, he was DENIED on the backround check, this was the first time of many telephone call ins that this happened.. information technology was therefore illegal for the man to get his own guns dorsum..

    In a similar situation a homo brought in a gun to sell on consignment and, after they didnt sell, wanted to have them domicile... trouble is, he "didnt desire the gun to be 'tied' to him." And so, he threw a fit and stormed out the door (with his gun.) My friend, the owner of the store, then called leaving a bulletin simply stating the following. "Tomorrow morning at 1100 "your" gun will be logged out of my books. This tin happen with your cooperation in filling out a yellow canvas (4473) or with the help of the Anniston AL police force department. The choice is yours."

    Needless to say, the guy came back and filled out the 4473.

    Correct, in the case of my friend'due south shop, when they stilled offered smithing services, he kept dissever "repair" books.
    Final edited: Sep 21, 2010
  19. If the FFL sells the gun simply because the actual buyer flunked the background check he is stealing. Whoever sells what isn't his'n must pay it back or become to prison.
  20. Separate books? This is a new one on me.

    The constabulary is still the same, no matter if they've got a set of Encyclopedia: Guns tendered for repair can be returned straight to the customer - no matter which book the transaction is recorded in.

  21. I in one case made a trade bargain with an FFL in another land. Even though I went to hurting-staking lengths to accurately describe the rifle, the FFL decided that he did not want it once he got, and he backed out of the bargain. He shipped it directly back to me. I don't know if what he did was legal, but he seemed to think it was ok to practice so.
  22. That is my point.. I was agreeing with you...it is for the sake of ease and to avoid defoliation while nonetheless showing the gun came through the shop... actually, he has 3 sets of books.. One for guns beingness brought in and sold retail. A second for repairs or those that are sent back to the manufacturer (which do not require a 4473 to leave the shop), and a tertiary for personal guns (once again, just to show a distinction.) The second and third sets are only a method of keeping track, zero "official" or necessary, but rather, just a thing of covering their ass.
  23. My supposition is that he never logged it into his books and therefor sort of circumvented the requirements. It is a unique state of affairs but , as far as I know, still illegal under current police.
  24. Very interesting; cheers. I have a better appreciation now for why some FFLs volition only accept transfers shipped from another FFL, despite no legal requirement to do then.
  25. As an FFL, I'yard non going to put the gun in your hands until -afterwards- you lot laissez passer and NICS check, or show me your SC CWP. At present -I- am covered.

    IF y'all don't laissez passer the NICS bank check ... I will requite yous the data you need for an entreatment. I'll also offering to sell the gun for you on a consignment footing. Returning it is between you and the seller ... I don't have a dog in that fight.

    If yous do pass the NICS cheque ... only don't like the gun ... Returning it is betwixt you and the seller ... I don't accept a domestic dog in that fight. I will be happy to sell it for you on consignment, or send it to another FFL.

    If the seller is a not-FFL, I can non ship the gun directly back to them. Once information technology is on my books, it tin can simply come off by:

    ane) 4473
    ii) xfer to some other FFL
    3) xfer to my personal collection (and log volume)
    four) reported stolen

    Of class, a big role of how this all goes down will be the "customer". The louder they talk, the less I hear, and the narrower their options become.

    I've had a couple of denials, delays, and had a fellow xfer in a gun that was illegal in my state (never got on my books, return aforementioned day to shipping FFL, at my expense! This is why I want to talk to you FIRST earlier you lot take a transfer sent!). All were settled amicably.

    Terminal edited: Sep 22, 2010
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